Comments on: Learning More about Structured Blogging

By: smime » Blog Archive » A lesson about tagging

smime » Blog Archive » A lesson about tagging — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 11:52:09 +0000

[...] Very Related: * Tagging revisited * del.icio.us stats * Learning more about structured blogging * WWW 2006 Tagging Workshop geschrieben am 4. May 2006 um 22:05, aktuell 5 Kommentare. [...]

By: Tagging is such a pain at lifeinlists.com

Tagging is such a pain at lifeinlists.com — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:38:53 +0000

[...] Then His reply a few seconds later: http://bokardo.com/archives/learning-more-about-structured-blogging/ [...]

By: The Equity Kicker » Blog Archive » The “del.icio.us Lesson” - personal value precedes network value

Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:53:14 +0000

[...] Vecosys pointed me to this post on bokardo.com which mostly talks about Structured Blogging - but which half way down describes the “Del.icio.us Lesson”: This is the lesson that personal value precedes network value: that selfish use comes before shared use. We’re seeing it more and more in everyday services like Del.icio.us and Flickr….even though we’re definitely benefitting from the value of networked software, we’re still not doing so unless the software is valuable to us on a personal level first. [...]

By: scouta blog » Blog Archive » Del.icio.us Lesson

scouta blog » Blog Archive » Del.icio.us Lesson — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:35:48 +0000

[...] I was reading an blog post by Mike Butcher, and found a reference to Joshua Porter’s “Del.icio.us Lesson.” From now on I’m going to call this idea the “Del.icio.us Lesson”. This is the lesson that personal value precedes network value: that selfish use comes before shared use. We’re seeing it more and more everyday in services like Del.icio.us, Flickr, and is an interesting aspect of networked applications. Even though we’re definitely benefitting from the value of networked software, we’re still not doing so unless the software is valuable to us on a personal level first. [...]

By: Library clips :: datablogging : personal knowledge blogging :: January :: 2007

Library clips :: datablogging : personal knowledge blogging :: January :: 2007 — Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:27:58 +0000

[...] Back to Bokardo’s post for a second, the insight on the personal value of structured blogging, may drive the aggregate value, people need to firstly have a personal benefit…and I believe that’s how the del.icio.us lesson came about. [...]

By: web live :: The Del.icio.us Lesson :: December :: 2006

web live :: The Del.icio.us Lesson :: December :: 2006 — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 02:00:34 +0000

[...] One of the hardest problems in web design is to speak the user’s language. With folksonomies and tagging, the web site could be designed with, and evolved by, the user’s own words. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line the vast majority of excited technologists (including me) forgot the original reason why people use and enjoy Del.icio.us. I call this reason the Del.icio.us Lesson, and I first posted about it last December in Learning more about Structured Blogging. Since then, that post has become the most referenced post on Bokardo. This post is an attempt to further illustrate the Del.icio.us Lesson. [...]

By: The Clash of the Titans « mov memory, blog

The Clash of the Titans « mov memory, blog — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:31:29 +0000

[...] In short, Microsoft are in danger of falling for the Innovator’s Dilemma put forward by Clayton Christensen. Microsoft are playing catch-up but, admirably (astonishingly?), they are showing signs of not falling into this trap. On a side issue, I personally think that the commoditization of services has everything to do with the reason why service aggregation in Web2.0 is a topic, i.e. it is based on the selfish motivations of the service providers - just like tagging as described in the del.icio.us lesson. [...]

By: web live :: The Del.icio.us Lesson :: September :: 2006

web live :: The Del.icio.us Lesson :: September :: 2006 — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 00:08:43 +0000

[...] The amazing popularity of the bookmarking site Del.icio.us is one of the hallmarks of the current social software renaissance happening on the Web. Along with Flickr, Del.icio.us is a poster child of tagging, a simple feature whereby people attach words or phrases to an item. In the case of Del.icio.us, those items are bookmarks. While Del.icio.us rose to prominence, much was made of the ability to aggregate the tags that the service’s user population created. The resulting framework, called a folksonomy, promised to redefine web navigation. If users could tag their own bookmarks and navigate to them through a direct tag-based interface, then there was really no need for an overarching, expert-developed taxonomy. In addition, if Del.icio.us could aggregate the bookmarks over all users, they could come up with a folksonomy for everybody, based on how the total population actually valued and referred to the content. One of the hardest problems in web design is to speak the user’s language. With folksonomies and tagging, the web site could be designed with, and evolved by, the user’s own words. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line the vast majority of excited technologists (including me) forgot the original reason why people use and enjoy Del.icio.us. I call this reason the Del.icio.us Lesson, and I first posted about it last December in Learning more about Structured Blogging. Since then, that post has become the most referenced post on Bokardo. This post is an attempt to further illustrate the Del.icio.us Lesson. Personal Value Precedes Network ValueThe one major idea behind the Del.icio.us Lesson is that personal value precedes network value. What this means is that if we are to build networks of value, then each person on the network needs to find value for themselves before they can contribute value to the network. In the case of Del.icio.us, people find value saving their personal bookmarks first and foremost. All other usage is secondary. As people use Del.icio.us more, and in order to gain more personal value, they use tags to be able to find their bookmarks later. Tagging isn’t even the primary function of Del.icio.us. Most of the tagging done on Del.icio.us is done secondarily, and for personal use. The social value of tags on Del.icio.us is only a happy side-effect. Even though most of the ink spilled about Del.icio.us is about the social value, it’s really not the reason why people use it. Similar to Google aggregating links that were originally created for taking readers from one document to another, Del.icio.us can aggregate tags in order to find out how people value content. If 1,000 people save and tag the same bookmark, for example, that’s a good sign that they find value in it. But to think that people tag so that this information can be aggregated is to give people a trait of altruism they just don’t possess. Blinded by the Aggregation LightUnfortunately, the ability to aggregate has blinded many software developers to think that tags are a cure-all to the success of their software. Tags have almost become a requisite feature in new software. I’ve received many emails in which developers try to sell me on the merits of their brand-new software based mostly on the ability of potential users to tag things, as if users inherently enjoy tagging things as a matter of course. Real people, in contrast, tag for their own benefit. And they surely won’t tag if the incentive to do so isn’t clear. Aggregation, in general, is probably more effective as a second-order feature of software. If we create features just to aggregate them, without providing users with tangible value first, then people simply won’t use the features. My guess is that aggregation technologies which prove most useful will be ones that are added to some activity that users have already started doing without the promise of any aggregation benefits. Why Del.icio.us Tags aren’t like Meta KeywordsShortly after Yahoo bought Flickr, Danny Sullivan, of Search Engine Watch, was dubiously skeptical of tags. He compared them with the meta keyword tag, observing that meta keyword tags have failed miserably on the Web and aren’t recognized by major search engines. He was certainly right: meta keyword tags aren’t useful anymore.However, Del.icio.us tags aren’t like meta keyword tags because of the Del.icio.us Lesson. Meta keyword tags provide no personal value whatsoever. All of their value is social. They’re for aggregation engines to find and tell other people about. In other words, they’re for getting attention only. Del.icio.us tags, on the other hand, provide personal value each time someone uses them to recall a bookmark. Danny was right to be skeptical, though. Some tagging initiatives don’t seem to provide much personal value at all. On sites like Amazon and Technorati, who have their own versions of tags, it is not clear what personal value users are getting. On Amazon, we already have multiple wish lists for items we want to remember. On Technorati, the tags seem like a pure-play for aggregation benefit without any real benefits for users. Dave Sifry’s suggestion that “Many bloggers use this (Technorati’s) tagging capability to help get their content found by people who are searching for a particular topic” sounds an awful lot like the value promised by meta keywords. Going further, the Del.icio.us Lesson might help us parse Dave’s statistics, especially this one: 47% of blog posts have tags or categories associated with them. If the Del.icio.us Lesson is predictive, it would suggest that nearly all of that 47% would be categories that users are applying for their personal value on their blog, rather than tags applied for attention only. Any way to separate out those numbers, Dave?Working toward Valuable ServicesThe level of innovation and discussion in and around tagging is phenomenal. There is increasing talk about tagging in intranets, there is Rashmi Sinha’s great piece on why tags are easier than categories, and there is even a Collaborative Web Tagging Workshop at WWW2006 this month. Tagging, it seems, has hit the big time. Everybody wants to know how and why tags work, and the best working example is the site that started it all: Del.icio.us. Philipp Keller (who will be speaking about tags at WWW2006) in a post about how to spread the word on tagging, asks “is the tagging revolution stuck?“. This is a common question these days, as the number of services trying to leverage tagging skyrockets. I say no, tagging isn’t stuck. Just don’t try and make it the primary thing to do. Instead, make sure personal value preceeds network value. Then you’ll have plenty to aggregate. Additional Reading:Rashmi Sinha A social analysis of tagging (or how tagging transforms the solitary browsing experience into a social one) Dan Bricklin Systems without guilt where every contribution is appreciated Joshua Schachter Tagging Session at Carson Summit Dave Winer The utter futility of geekness Shelley Powers Cheap Eats at the Semantic Web Cafe Delicious Stats [...]

By: Wesley Hein’s Web 2.0 » Blog Archive » The “Del.icio.us Lesson,” Now don’t forget it!

Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:43:16 +0000

[...] The "Del.icio.us Lesson" is very simple. So much so that it is far too often forgotten by Web 2.0 technologists. The lesson was defined by Josha Porter who states that "personal value precedes network value: that selfish use comes before shared use." Even though we’re definitely benefiting from the value of networked software, we’re still not doing so unless the software is valuable to us on a personal level first. [...]

By: The Keystone of Building Network Value at Disruptive Thoughts

The Keystone of Building Network Value at Disruptive Thoughts — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:29:00 +0000

[...] Joshua Porter: From now on I’m going to call this idea the “Del.icio.us Lesson”. This is the lesson that personal value precedes network value: that selfish use comes before shared use… [...]

By: » another twist for social

» another twist for social — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:07:02 +0000

[...] I think its wonderful Netflix has gone social. It’s definitely an added bonus to their already popular service; just like the del.icio.us lesson states "personal value precedes network value: that selfish use comes before shared use". [...]

By: Nothing But Net » links for 2006-01-06

Nothing But Net » links for 2006-01-06 — Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:21:31 +0000

[...] Bokardo » Blog Archive » Learning More about Structured Blogging (tags: Del.icio.us+Lesson Structured+blogging) [...]

By: Tongue Trip » A Quick Taxonomy of User-Generated Content

Tongue Trip » A Quick Taxonomy of User-Generated Content — Tue, 03 Jan 2006 05:01:06 +0000

[...] 1) The selfish service, as described by Josh Porter. People generate content because it’s useful to them (i.e., del.icio.us, flickr, myspace). This is the predominant template. [...]

By: Ian Yorston

Ian Yorston — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:48:12 +0000

I’m sure that the “Del.icio.us Lesson” applies in all sorts of environments - but it seems particular pertinent in the introspective world of Education. The reason so many of the VLEs etc have failed to take off is that they have focussed on the benefit to the student - which sounds great but won’t actually get implemented unless teachers can see the improvement in their lives…

By: Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » Lots of StructuredBlogging discussions

Fri, 30 Dec 2005 23:14:17 +0000

[...] Gunnar Langemark has been posting several insights, new ideas, discussions and status of the StructuredBlogging.org mail list. [...]