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	<title>Comments on: The Importance of &#8220;People like Me&#8221; features</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/</link>
	<description>A Blog about Social Web Design</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: shammara</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-155680</link>
		<dc:creator>shammara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-155680</guid>
		<description>At PowerReviews we license our review technology to retail sites like Staples.com, RadioShack.com, Toysrus.com, etc. etc. 

Our review template asks people to select what type of user they are of the product, so for Digital Cameras for example, they can select whether they are a Casual User, Professional, Hobbyist/ Enthusiast, and so on (or add their own). We then aggregate this data and allow our retailers to add a 'social navigation' component to their site. We also aggregating this data and enabling users to narrow results on reviews based on their user profile on our own product review site &lt;a href="http:://buzzillions.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;Buzzillions.com&lt;/a&gt; 

By the way Joshua, I discovered your site after hearing you speak at SNAP earlier this week, and I'm really glad I did. Great job and extremely helpful - I'm looking forward to your book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At PowerReviews we license our review technology to retail sites like Staples.com, RadioShack.com, Toysrus.com, etc. etc. </p>
<p>Our review template asks people to select what type of user they are of the product, so for Digital Cameras for example, they can select whether they are a Casual User, Professional, Hobbyist/ Enthusiast, and so on (or add their own). We then aggregate this data and allow our retailers to add a &#8217;social navigation&#8217; component to their site. We also aggregating this data and enabling users to narrow results on reviews based on their user profile on our own product review site <a href="http:://buzzillions.com" rel="nofollow">Buzzillions.com</a> </p>
<p>By the way Joshua, I discovered your site after hearing you speak at SNAP earlier this week, and I&#8217;m really glad I did. Great job and extremely helpful - I&#8217;m looking forward to your book.</p>
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		<title>By: Prejudice is in the brain &#124; Daily EM</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-155193</link>
		<dc:creator>Prejudice is in the brain &#124; Daily EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-155193</guid>
		<description>[...] Porter, who runs a popular blog &#8220;Bokardo&#8221; about social design, used this study to ponder what implications this study has for recommendation engines, while David Galbraith wondered about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Porter, who runs a popular blog &#8220;Bokardo&#8221; about social design, used this study to ponder what implications this study has for recommendation engines, while David Galbraith wondered about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: designmartini &#187; The Importance of “People like Me” features</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154902</link>
		<dc:creator>designmartini &#187; The Importance of “People like Me” features</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154902</guid>
		<description>[...] The Importance of “People like Me” featuresVia Bokardo - Social Design by Joshua Porter.    Tags: google reader, link, tumblr &#124; Posted by Marci on 03/04/2008   Post a comment  &#124;  Trackback  &#124; Permalink &#124; Share      &#171; Fail Dogs 6 Rules for Effective Writing from George Orwell &#187; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Importance of “People like Me” featuresVia Bokardo - Social Design by Joshua Porter.    Tags: google reader, link, tumblr | Posted by Marci on 03/04/2008   Post a comment  |  Trackback  | Permalink | Share      &laquo; Fail Dogs 6 Rules for Effective Writing from George Orwell &raquo; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Point Internal Staff Blog &#187; Links &#8212; February 25, 2008</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154211</link>
		<dc:creator>The Point Internal Staff Blog &#187; Links &#8212; February 25, 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154211</guid>
		<description>[...] The Importance of “People like Me” features [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Importance of “People like Me” features [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Fahey</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154007</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Fahey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154007</guid>
		<description>Let me make this more complex just to show where a smart engine can go. I'll add a third band to my list:

I like the Ramones, Devo, and New Order.

So:
New Order fans like Shriekback.
Ramones fans like Talking Heads. 
Devo fans also like Talking Heads. 
Talking Heads fans like Shriekback. 

That's one first order point for Shriekback, plus two second-order points for Shriekback.

So Shriekback can be recommended to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me make this more complex just to show where a smart engine can go. I&#8217;ll add a third band to my list:</p>
<p>I like the Ramones, Devo, and New Order.</p>
<p>So:<br />
New Order fans like Shriekback.<br />
Ramones fans like Talking Heads.<br />
Devo fans also like Talking Heads.<br />
Talking Heads fans like Shriekback. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s one first order point for Shriekback, plus two second-order points for Shriekback.</p>
<p>So Shriekback can be recommended to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Fahey</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154005</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Fahey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-154005</guid>
		<description>I'm surprised, and a little skeptical, to hear that Amazon's Personalized Recommendations feature doesn't use person-based collaborative filtering. Obviously "people who bought this also bought" is  item-based, but the Personalized Recommendations seem to leverage your *ratings* of products, too. I can go through Amazon and rate a hundred products to improve the recommendations, regardless of what I've shopped for or purchased in the past. 

The current Personalized Recommendations page seems to say "We recommend X because you bought Y" for every item, but it may well be leveraging aggregate person-based data as well. There's no reason why both systems couldn't be combined into a single engine. I recall it did so in the past (I ever read a white paper on it), but maybe they've decided to lean more towards item-based filtering -- or at least they are showing that aspect to their customers, since it's a little easier to understand. 

All this being said, I agree that actually *showing* people who are allegedly "like you" is a lot different than simply using that data behind the scenes to make suggestions. 

Part of the "black art" of person-based collaborative filteting is that it is NOT about finding another single person very much like you, but that it aggregates thousands of people loosely similar to you. This is hard for many people to understand, which is why they often simply resort to displaying "you are like these people" instead of displaying all of the complex math used to create your profile and recommendations.

For example, a good collab filter engine might look at the fact that I like The Ramones and Devo and, instead of finding another person or group of people who like both of those two bands, it might look further, to 2nd and 3rd or 4th degrees of "like": Ramones fans also like Talking Heads. Devo fans like Talking Heads. Then it sees that Talking Heads fans like Shriekback. So it then recommends Shriekback to me. If the system only looked at people *just* like me, it might never find that additional recommendation. Multiply this sytem by hundreds of things I like, cross-referencing with millions of other people's lists of things they like, and you can see how "explaining" this to users is impossible. So they resort to simplistic things like "People who bought X also bought Y" and other transparent, easy-to-grok systems. But that doesn't mean that arcane true person-based collab filters can't also be used on the back end to smartify these engines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised, and a little skeptical, to hear that Amazon&#8217;s Personalized Recommendations feature doesn&#8217;t use person-based collaborative filtering. Obviously &#8220;people who bought this also bought&#8221; is  item-based, but the Personalized Recommendations seem to leverage your *ratings* of products, too. I can go through Amazon and rate a hundred products to improve the recommendations, regardless of what I&#8217;ve shopped for or purchased in the past. </p>
<p>The current Personalized Recommendations page seems to say &#8220;We recommend X because you bought Y&#8221; for every item, but it may well be leveraging aggregate person-based data as well. There&#8217;s no reason why both systems couldn&#8217;t be combined into a single engine. I recall it did so in the past (I ever read a white paper on it), but maybe they&#8217;ve decided to lean more towards item-based filtering &#8212; or at least they are showing that aspect to their customers, since it&#8217;s a little easier to understand. </p>
<p>All this being said, I agree that actually *showing* people who are allegedly &#8220;like you&#8221; is a lot different than simply using that data behind the scenes to make suggestions. </p>
<p>Part of the &#8220;black art&#8221; of person-based collaborative filteting is that it is NOT about finding another single person very much like you, but that it aggregates thousands of people loosely similar to you. This is hard for many people to understand, which is why they often simply resort to displaying &#8220;you are like these people&#8221; instead of displaying all of the complex math used to create your profile and recommendations.</p>
<p>For example, a good collab filter engine might look at the fact that I like The Ramones and Devo and, instead of finding another person or group of people who like both of those two bands, it might look further, to 2nd and 3rd or 4th degrees of &#8220;like&#8221;: Ramones fans also like Talking Heads. Devo fans like Talking Heads. Then it sees that Talking Heads fans like Shriekback. So it then recommends Shriekback to me. If the system only looked at people *just* like me, it might never find that additional recommendation. Multiply this sytem by hundreds of things I like, cross-referencing with millions of other people&#8217;s lists of things they like, and you can see how &#8220;explaining&#8221; this to users is impossible. So they resort to simplistic things like &#8220;People who bought X also bought Y&#8221; and other transparent, easy-to-grok systems. But that doesn&#8217;t mean that arcane true person-based collab filters can&#8217;t also be used on the back end to smartify these engines.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153533</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153533</guid>
		<description>Clearspace, from Jive Software has several features like this including a list of "Similar Users" when looking at someone's profile.  They also have a "More by UserX" feature when looking at a specific page.

http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/clearspace/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearspace, from Jive Software has several features like this including a list of &#8220;Similar Users&#8221; when looking at someone&#8217;s profile.  They also have a &#8220;More by UserX&#8221; feature when looking at a specific page.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/clearspace/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jivesoftware.com/products/clearspace/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Porter</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153280</link>
		<dc:creator>Porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153280</guid>
		<description>Years ago Amazon did have exactly a "People Like You" feature, and it was fantastic. It might well have been the first mainstream application of this sort of thing. You could page through a list of people with similar purchases and see items that they'd purhased that you hadn't. I don't recall, now, if ratings factored in or not.

Honestly, I still miss the feature today. It always provided far more interesting choices than their regular product recommendations. Amazon's main problem there is a lack of real understanding about their products. Recommending a white KitchenAid mixer because I've said I own a blue one, or a Nikon D80 with lens because I've said I own a Nikon D80 body-only is a waste of everyone's time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years ago Amazon did have exactly a &#8220;People Like You&#8221; feature, and it was fantastic. It might well have been the first mainstream application of this sort of thing. You could page through a list of people with similar purchases and see items that they&#8217;d purhased that you hadn&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t recall, now, if ratings factored in or not.</p>
<p>Honestly, I still miss the feature today. It always provided far more interesting choices than their regular product recommendations. Amazon&#8217;s main problem there is a lack of real understanding about their products. Recommending a white KitchenAid mixer because I&#8217;ve said I own a blue one, or a Nikon D80 with lens because I&#8217;ve said I own a Nikon D80 body-only is a waste of everyone&#8217;s time.</p>
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		<title>By: David Deangelo</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153257</link>
		<dc:creator>David Deangelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153257</guid>
		<description>No specific examples, but I would love a blog comment plugin that says, "You have a similar comment to (name) and (name), would you like to respond to them here?"

That would be awesome. Keyword recgonition I guess...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No specific examples, but I would love a blog comment plugin that says, &#8220;You have a similar comment to (name) and (name), would you like to respond to them here?&#8221;</p>
<p>That would be awesome. Keyword recgonition I guess&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: pepelicious</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153255</link>
		<dc:creator>pepelicious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153255</guid>
		<description>Here's an interesting twist on this subject. A Facebook Beacon experiment that produced some pretty invasive results for some employees at Yahoo and Microsoft who unknowingly had their profile pics used in an ads with the taglines "Leaving Yahoo?", and "Leaving Microsoft?", because they had become "fans" of this a company's Facebook profile.

While the itent of the program was to provide a "genuine" peer endorsement experience for a product, it's pretty clear that it can be misused as someone indicated that the ads looked less like "ads" and more like defametory propaganda, for lack of a better term.

Here's a link: http://valleywag.com/354279/vc-freaks-out-yahoos-with-shocking-facebook-ad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting twist on this subject. A Facebook Beacon experiment that produced some pretty invasive results for some employees at Yahoo and Microsoft who unknowingly had their profile pics used in an ads with the taglines &#8220;Leaving Yahoo?&#8221;, and &#8220;Leaving Microsoft?&#8221;, because they had become &#8220;fans&#8221; of this a company&#8217;s Facebook profile.</p>
<p>While the itent of the program was to provide a &#8220;genuine&#8221; peer endorsement experience for a product, it&#8217;s pretty clear that it can be misused as someone indicated that the ads looked less like &#8220;ads&#8221; and more like defametory propaganda, for lack of a better term.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link: <a href="http://valleywag.com/354279/vc-freaks-out-yahoos-with-shocking-facebook-ad" rel="nofollow">http://valleywag.com/354279/vc-freaks-out-yahoos-with-shocking-facebook-ad</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Lifson</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153254</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lifson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 23:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153254</guid>
		<description>@Josh Again, you make good points. Two, in fact. First, the fact that Amazon wants you to purchase but Netflix does NOT want you to rent (especially high demand items) is a critical and oft-overlooked difference between our systems. The ideal Netflix customer is the customer that only rarely rents a movie, and that movie is never a high demand item. Amazon wants you to buy whatever product you want. In terms of ratings, you could think of ratings similar to purchases; the weight you assign the rated product may or may not differ, but it's just another item to be considered. So, it doesn't require person-to-person similarities.

Your second point (directed @Scott) is also very interesting. When you rate an item, are you rating the item (like a customer review)? Are you rating the quality of the recommendation algorithm? Is my 4 star rating the same as your 4 star rating? Maybe the ratings should be normalized across customers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Josh Again, you make good points. Two, in fact. First, the fact that Amazon wants you to purchase but Netflix does NOT want you to rent (especially high demand items) is a critical and oft-overlooked difference between our systems. The ideal Netflix customer is the customer that only rarely rents a movie, and that movie is never a high demand item. Amazon wants you to buy whatever product you want. In terms of ratings, you could think of ratings similar to purchases; the weight you assign the rated product may or may not differ, but it&#8217;s just another item to be considered. So, it doesn&#8217;t require person-to-person similarities.</p>
<p>Your second point (directed @Scott) is also very interesting. When you rate an item, are you rating the item (like a customer review)? Are you rating the quality of the recommendation algorithm? Is my 4 star rating the same as your 4 star rating? Maybe the ratings should be normalized across customers?</p>
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		<title>By: Zephyr</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153234</link>
		<dc:creator>Zephyr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153234</guid>
		<description>I think many people are desperate to make sense of the sometimes overwhelming number of options. It might not be the greatness of the opinions of other individuals, as the spin of corporations that makes the alternative so attractive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think many people are desperate to make sense of the sometimes overwhelming number of options. It might not be the greatness of the opinions of other individuals, as the spin of corporations that makes the alternative so attractive.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153225</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153225</guid>
		<description>@Scott - Yes, the distinction between implicit and explicit is interesting, especially that you trust one more than the other. 

I wonder if it matters who people rate items for. If they're rating it for themselves, the ratings will probably be more accurate than if they're rating for others...since the social performance might affect how they act. (at least for some people)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott - Yes, the distinction between implicit and explicit is interesting, especially that you trust one more than the other. </p>
<p>I wonder if it matters who people rate items for. If they&#8217;re rating it for themselves, the ratings will probably be more accurate than if they&#8217;re rating for others&#8230;since the social performance might affect how they act. (at least for some people)</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153224</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153224</guid>
		<description>@Rich: You're absolutely right! Patientslikeme is probably the best example here. I've long used it as an example, and should have used it in this post! So plug away!

You bring up a great point, as well, about trust. You've built an app in an environment where trust is crucial, and for patients with diseases they don't always understand (or are completely new to) it makes all the sense in the world that they'll try to find someone who has been through the same battles. I like the idea of showing similarity through graphs of treatment data...almost adding to the trust factor. 

Thanks for writing, Rich. I'm sure we could all learn a lot from your experience at patientslikeme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rich: You&#8217;re absolutely right! Patientslikeme is probably the best example here. I&#8217;ve long used it as an example, and should have used it in this post! So plug away!</p>
<p>You bring up a great point, as well, about trust. You&#8217;ve built an app in an environment where trust is crucial, and for patients with diseases they don&#8217;t always understand (or are completely new to) it makes all the sense in the world that they&#8217;ll try to find someone who has been through the same battles. I like the idea of showing similarity through graphs of treatment data&#8230;almost adding to the trust factor. </p>
<p>Thanks for writing, Rich. I&#8217;m sure we could all learn a lot from your experience at patientslikeme.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153223</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bokardo.com/archives/the-importance-of-people-like-me-features/#comment-153223</guid>
		<description>@David - my apologies. I actually did know that Amazon uses item-based collaborative filtering, but I bungled the post. I wrote it completely out of order, adding the bit about Netflix and person-based filtering after the fact. I've updated it to be more accurate. 

Now you have me wondering...it seems like a difference between Amazon recommendations and Netflix recommendations is that Amazon considers purchase decision to be a positive action, whereas Netflix does not consider renting a positive action. 

Netflix, as far as I understand it, explicitly looks at the rating when making recommendations. Does this have the effect of necessitating person-based collaborative filtering, or could you say "people who rated this highly also rated this highly"? Perhaps that's what they doing anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David - my apologies. I actually did know that Amazon uses item-based collaborative filtering, but I bungled the post. I wrote it completely out of order, adding the bit about Netflix and person-based filtering after the fact. I&#8217;ve updated it to be more accurate. </p>
<p>Now you have me wondering&#8230;it seems like a difference between Amazon recommendations and Netflix recommendations is that Amazon considers purchase decision to be a positive action, whereas Netflix does not consider renting a positive action. </p>
<p>Netflix, as far as I understand it, explicitly looks at the rating when making recommendations. Does this have the effect of necessitating person-based collaborative filtering, or could you say &#8220;people who rated this highly also rated this highly&#8221;? Perhaps that&#8217;s what they doing anyway?</p>
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