Great post, Joshua. I just followed Greg’s lead and pointed to it from the AttentionTrust blog. Would love to hear further feedback on your experience with the Recorder and Root Vaults. Thanks–

Ed Batista
Executive Director, AttentionTrust

Joshua,

What is the difference between Root Vault and the Google Search History? I am pretty sure, Google collects the same information for their own use in the future. Especially making the search results better. Am I wrong?

Why don’t you trust them? You never actually state why. I ask because I do trust them. Can you give some specifics?

very true David…I trust Microsoft as well, I for one have never had any problems with their products and even if I did, trust is not about problems with products…

u trust Apple so much because they treat you real nice at their customer support centre? give us specifics: why do you trust Apple over Microsoft or Google over Microsoft?

one more addition:

since trust is not about products and problems I’ll tell you why I trust Microsoft over Google/Apple and others…

Microsoft is damn open…and you can’t argue with that…we KNOW of ALL problems in development, business etc that MS has gone through…we know what they’re developing and how they’re developing it…heck we know that there was a Vista reset…we only know about Apple’s decision to do something when Apple feels like enlightening its followers…and Google is a completely different entity…nobody knows anything about them…

so how do you build trust…like Scoble says: be MORE open…

The Root.Net service begs a bigger question. Why does my (very personal) data have to be at a machine that I do not control. What functionality does Root.Net provide that makes it important for me to offload the data to them? Why can’t they release a version of their code and plugin that allows me to intall it on my server and get my data to be analysed by my machine?

It is not like they are providing a service (read del.icio.us) that exploits (as in from my point of view, not their) the power of the crowd.

Thanks for the questions, guys. I understand that you have a lot of trust in Microsoft. Here’s why I don’t:

First of all, I’m a web developer and Microsoft has a clear history of diverting from web standards in an attempt to create their own web monoculture. The number of examples is astounding. This is changing with the work that Molly Holzschlag and WaSP are doing with the IE 7 team, and while it’s a good thing, it’s many years too late in my opinion.

Second of all, the monopoly thing. Why should I trust a convicted monopolist?

Third, the appalling user experience. About a month ago I tried for over 8 hours to remove viruses from a infected Windows laptop, and I got so frustrated that I had to let my sysadmin do it. I can’t really say that I trust a software maker who ignores for years the amazing amount of trash that propagates on their systems. Every time I have to “reboot” I frown…not just from the wasted time but from the contrast to the other two solid OSs. Of course, your mileage may vary here, but I know many folks who are experienced computer users who go through this.

Fourth, I believe in open document formats. I believe that tools to write open document formats are where innovation should lie, not in the formats themselves. Microsoft have shown that they don’t hold this opinion. They bully governments into using their tools, and that’s simply wrong.

Fifth, when Steve Ballmer says that MS are going to “crush Google” and continually focuses on corporate competition, that signals to me that he doesn’t care about his users. If he did, he would keep his mouth shut and focus on building better products.

Sixth, there are better alternatives. When I walk into an Apple Store or call an Apple support specialist, I’m treated as if they want me as a customer. There have been several cases in the last 3 months alone where Apple have taken a loss at their own expense because they were trying to make me a happy customer. That’s really hard to ignore.

In general, though, it’s really hard to trust a company whose products I don’t use for technical, political, or competitive reasons. It’s kind of like the way I look at Walmart. I *could* buy all my stuff there, but I choose not to because I don’t trust them to do the right thing. I’ve been on the Web long enough to realize that there are alternatives out there, and there are people who try to do the right thing, even if it means a loss of control.

Thanks for replying. It seems most don’t apply to me (not a developer, no viruses, etc.) The monopolist one does apply to me although I think what you mean to say is that they were convicted of abusing their monopoly. It’s not against the law to be a monopoly. But I’m not entirely sure how that affected me. I’ve felt I get a decent deal on their OS compared to other software. And I’ve always felt I’ve had other options (e.g., Macs which I’ve owned). I don’t feel they always make decisions in my best interest but I do feel like I always have other choices if I don’t like those decisions.

The main reason I trust them is because they are so big and so highly scrutinized. I generally trust larger corporations because of the attractive economics of class action suits. If they did something with my data I think they would be screwed. Anyway. Another perspective.

The thing about big corporations is that they have more resources to put into a legal issue than some angry class action lawyers. It’s a joke to think Microsoft should be trusted because we have a legal system.

Also, the things that we do with our computer are becoming less sacred. Sony took a jump very close to the “virus line” with their rootkits, which they, and I imagine others, just consider to be the natural extension of DRM.

In the future, any big company probably will find a way to prove that they own your data because you use their service.

Josh,

I hear you (and, if you and I were having a beer right now, I’d even agree with you).

A couple of things: yes, we have really screwed over the Web. No doubt about it. It isn’t so simple, though. I was an IE user back in 2, 3, 4, 5 because IE supported more standards faster than Netscape did. Remember CSS? Who did that first? Microsoft. Remember DHTML, er AJAX? Who invented that?

Regarding UI. Have you seen Microsoft Max yet? Anyone who has can’t say we don’t know how to make awesome user experiences. Or, check out Sparkle.

Windows Vista fixes most, if not all of the other things you’re complaining about. Is it late? Yes. I wish it were out by now too.

Regarding monopoly. 85% of our referer hits to http://channel9.msdn.com are from Google. So, you’re saying you can’t trust a monopoly with your attention data, right? Well, 85% in most people’s minds is at minimum dominant and is definitely moving into the line of a monopoly. When we were convicted of being a monopoly we had about a 90% market share.

Fourth: the last chapter has not been written on open data formats. It’s my prediction that all of our formats will be very open by the end of next year. Far more open than you might think or believe. Keep watching us on that one. The era of closed formats is about to end.

Fifth: I agree. Although a lot of that is just Steve’s personality. Do you watch Jim Cramer of Mad Money? A lot of that is the same kind of bravado. Sometimes you need that kind of bravado. Sometimes it hurts you. Here I agree it hurts more than helps.

Sixth: I agree. I hang out a lot in Apple stores. They are awesome. But don’t miss that you have to pay for that kind of service. Also, I get that same kind of service at Best Buy. I had a camcorder go dead and they took it back. Another time I just didn’t like it. They took it back and gave me a full refund.

Thanks for all the comments, guys. I’m really digging this conversation, and I really think that it’s best for all parties to do it without flaming. Microsoft can only benefit from an honest conversation about things.

Robert, you are a great evangelist for Microsoft. You argue with passion and honesty, and that’s awesome. I posted many moons ago about that, and I still think so. For my part, I think it will be a while before my opinion of Microsoft starts to change significantly enough for me to consider buying your products, but I can say that your efforts here and daily on your site are certainly a step in the right direction.

About IE. I agree, IE in the 4 days was the best browser out there, and insofar as it supported standards I was happy with it. Now Firefox and Safari are superior, and one thing that I really appreciate about them is that they support standards no matter what, and continually innovate. Dave Hyatt and gang just released a browser that passes the Acid2 test and that signals to me that they care about developers. The IE team only got back on the horse when their broken browser was being beaten. From a business standpoint it probably makes sense. From my standpoint as a developer, it’s frustrating as heck.

I’ll definitely check out Max and Sparkle. Thanks for the pointers.

And finally, hanging out in Apple stores might be the best thing that Microsoft employees could do. You’re an exception to the rule there, I bet. Further, I think it can only benefit the end user that companies like Apple, Google and Yahoo are firing on all cylinders now, and it’s bringing back some competition that all parties desperately need.

Hi Folks

I am one of the founders of /ROOT as well as Attention Trust. In addition to helping establish models and principles for each of these entities I am doing much of the product definition and design.

Writing here because I am delighted to see a conversation hybrib between privacy, security, standards, and UI. I specialize in customer experience design and HCI, but have spent much of the last 4 months thinking about the intersection of these other issues because of what /R and AT have evolved into.

If you go to the current root.net page you may find that it is different than when you signed up. We have pushed the /VAULTS down one level to expose the greater challenge we are addressing…how can we create an OPEN market place for the pricing and exchange of consumer data.

The message here will putoff many, and may compel current /VAULT owners to immediately login and “DELETE ALL”. We understand.

But, if you spend another moment with the principles of AT (property, mobility, economy, transparency), and reference this against the idea of a transparent exchange for attention data you can begin to see how this changes the game.

/ROOT aims to help its users understand the value of their attention data, and how it is a truly valuable expression of their digital identity.

Part of our consumer strategy is to enable users to pay attention to their attention. if attention is currency, this would be investing in yourself…believing that you are interesting. All the tools we are developing for consumers aim to convert their attention to influence, and provide a platform to leverage this influence.

What you currently see in our /VAULT product is the beginning of the beginning…we simply wanted to get something out there that works (even if topic assigning through DMOZ is horrible)

All /ROOT product development happens on top of our corporate values…my favorite is “fail fast”.

Please stick with us as we build these /VAULTS. We develop in an agile environment, and have engaged some of the best product designer/developers out there. We have a laundry list of features and functions that will surely delight all Attendees (does that term work for those who pay attention to their attention?)

So, thank you Josh and Robert for opening a /VAULT.

I hope the time you have SPENT, and the attention you have PAID will be properly converted to currency in this new marketplace.

Xboxer and David seem skeptical that Microsoft’s monopolistic practices have impacted them in any way. The worst part about this is you have no idea how much these practices have diminshed the vibrancy of the software market.

During the 7 years I lived in Seattle and worked in the software development world there, I attended countless product development brainstorming sessions from formal meetings with investors all the way down to a couple developers sitting around in a bar scratching ideas on napkins. I’ve lost track of the number of times really great product ideas were abandoned because the principals feared Microsoft would kill them.

In one case, a friend’s company developed products that worked with the Exchange mail server. Once his company started seeing real revenue, Microsoft began to take notice — they told his customers that the next version of Exchange would include all the features from his product. When the next version of Exchange shipped (late as usual), it had but a quarter of the features. However, the damage was done: his customers hadn’t bought the product because they were waiting for Microsoft.

Finally, my experiences actually working for Microsoft in late 1995 solidified my absolute disgust for Microsoft’s business practices which included at the time withholding API documentation from their partners so that their products could appear to have an edge.

My positive experiences as an Apple customer aside, there’s no way for Microsoft to earn my trust.

I don’t think that i ever trust Microsoft Corporation

In general, though, it’s really hard to trust a company whose products I don’t use for technical, political, or competitive reasons. It’s kind of like the way I look at Walmart. I *could* buy all my stuff there, but I choose not to because I don’t trust them to do the right thing. I’ve been on the Web long enough to realize that there are alternatives out there, and there are people who try to do the right thing, even if it means a loss of control.